I am looking for the opinions of any and all tattoo artist that would be kind enough to give them.
first, Ill say that I do not like 98% of the tattoos I see.
this is just a personal style preference and not a judgement on quality or artistry.
the images I have, and wish to have on me came to me through visions.
I did not sit down and come up with these images because I thought they would be cool,
these images came to me- and I want them because they have importance to me.
I have visited 5 tattoo shops and talked to 8 different artists,
all shops and all artists did both flash and custom work.
I have gone with drawings and print-outs as either guidelines or finished designs
and I understand such principles as -colors can bleed if not outlined in black,
and details can only be so small or intricate-, and all of my designs have adhered to
these principles,
but on every occasion so far I have been fought and challenged on nearly every
desired detail of my ideas,
and most recently was told- ” as artists, we tend to like to do things correctly “
now I dont give a F#*@K if anyone but me likes these-
but this statement would have been seemingly less arrogant and appalling
had I not been complemented on my tattoos by other heavily tattooed people
and actually inspired one person to be tattooed…
so my question is-
what can I do to get what I want tattoed on me?
why are tattooists so resistant to my designs considering that they put the same lame-ass
tattoos of roses, butterflys and clawing panthers on people day in and day out?
I feel like I am very polite and respectfull,
and Im standing there, wallet in hand, ready to go…
so WTF?
is there such a thing as a tattooing robot?
I need your help.
THANK YOU for your input!
Hi
First of all what is it exactly are you wanting to be tattooed?
If it is something out of the ordinary many artists will have to check whether it can be achieved without looking a dogs dinner.
For example many people want a white tattoo – completely white with no black outline. This is possible but would look absolutely shite because white fades so rapidly and often does not show up against the skin so all definition is lost.
Secondly colour bleed is a serious issue – say you wanted swirls of colour like a rainbow (as an example) without any dividing outline there is a some risk that the ink can bleed into one another creating what is known by pro’s as a blow out.
This is not good and can wreck a tattoo.
Thirdly
You are speaking with an artist they are creative people and it is only natural that they want to put their twist on how they interpret your vision of the tattoo. It is like any art if you give the same idea to 20 artists with strict instructions each artist will come up with a different version.
Your argument about flash work is (politely invalid) the picture is pre-drawn all the artist does is outline and colour in over the orig lines – but even with that a decent artist will turn a flash piece into a custom job by adding their own flair to it.
The artists are correct in that they do not want to fuck up somebody’s skin – this is a sign of a true artist and not some wannabe who just does not give a shit and will bang anything down on your arm – wait i hear you saying that is exactly want you want!
But consider this..
If you have a print out and they just copy that exactly and it looks much worse as a tattoo than it does on paper because they do not bother to draw up a pro version of it. Would you be happy?
Tattooing is a dangerous thing you can die of it through blood born pathogens.
My advice is find an artist who is a pro and experienced and LISTEN TO THEM – I cannot state this enough if an artist is turning down your cash it is because they are trying to help you get the best you can from your ink.
If you are prepared to sit and listen and not just be polite (which is not the same as engaging a person seriously) they might be able to say where the drawbacks are in your idea.
Being a perfectionist myself I can see the barriers but you have to learn to trust those with the skills to get what you are not able to do yourself.
Take Care
Matthew
” First of all what is it exactly are you wanting to be tattooed? “
— Im sorry I could not attach an image with this and Im not sure a description would be enough.
” If it is something out of the ordinary many artists will have to check whether it can be achieved without looking a dogs dinner.”
— Im sure it is achievable – I have seen a million tattoos, and my desires are not lofty compared to some of
the amazing things I have seen done. I was an art minor in college and understand that there are different limitations to different techniques.
” many people want a white tattoo – completely white with no black outline. This is possible but would look absolutely shite because white fades so rapidly and often does not show up against the skin so all definition is lost. “
— white is not what I am looking for now, and I would accept a statement like “white rarely looks good
and rarely lasts” but you are wrong if you are saying that white always looks like “shite”
I have had an all white tattoo on my forearm for ten years and it is still awesome!
I do take alot of care to keep it out of too much sun, but I love it.
the only other white I have seen in person was 2 white sleeves on a hispanic girl and I have no Idea how old they were, but they too were incredible and looked better on her than me because of her darker skin.
” Secondly colour bleed is a serious issue – say you wanted swirls of colour like a rainbow (as an example) without any dividing outline there is a some risk that the ink can bleed into one another creating what is known by pro’s as a blow out. “
— yes, I understand this, and that is why I said that I do understand the issue of color without black outlines
potentially bleeding alot and that my designs conform to this principle.
” You are speaking with an artist they are creative people and it is only natural that they want to put their twist on how they interpret your vision of the tattoo. It is like any art if you give the same idea to 20 artists with strict instructions each artist will come up with a different version. ‘
Your argument about flash work is (politely invalid) the picture is pre-drawn all the artist does is outline and colour in over the orig lines – but even with that a decent artist will turn a flash piece into a custom job by adding their own flair to it. “
–I feel like my desires often leave much more room for artistic interpratatiuon than do asian charachters,
black tribals, gothic- old-english lettering and black panthers ripping into the skin….
maybe its just where I live and the places I’ve been, but I see little artistry being added to this stuff”
“The artists are correct in that they do not want to fuck up somebody’s skin – this is a sign of a true artist and not some wannabe who just does not give a shit and will bang anything down on your arm – wait i hear you saying that is exactly want you want! “
— I am very proud of what I have had done so far- and it is arrogant of you to say that I am fucking up
my skin.
this boils down to artistic preference- and it is my opinion that what I want is more appropriate for my personality than sailor-style tattoos, flaming skulls, or naked women…
this is my skin forever, and I was not born yesterday.
it is my opinon that these type tattoos, which could be easily done at the drop of a hat at any studio,
would be totally inappropriate for me and would infact be fucking up my skin.
“If you have a print out and they just copy that exactly and it looks much worse as a tattoo than it does on paper because they do not bother to draw up a pro version of it. Would you be happy “
–I would be happy if someone listened to what I want.
you assume I have no fucking clue, and that whatever I might present would look worse.
“Tattooing is a dangerous thing you can die of it through blood born pathogens.”
— can you explain to me what this has to do with tattoo design?
pathogens are not magically fabricated through the perceived quality of a design.
I would never go to a shop that had not been established for some time,
I would never go to a shop or artist whom I had not seen work from and gotten refferals from customers.
and I would never go to a shop that did not use an surgical grade autoclave and offer new needles to
each customer.
“Being a perfectionist myself I can see the barriers but you have to learn to trust those with the skills to get what you are not able to do yourself.”
–agreed.
this all really comes down to artistic preference, and it seems like a certain aesthetic is ingrained in
most tattoo artists as if it were a law passed down from the tattoo gods.
I have a friend with a tattoo of a monkey- and the word “aloha”
the O in the word aloha doubles as the pink, puckered anus of the monkey.
this is a flash tattoo I have seen before.
I absolutely will not accept that my designs could be inappropriate in light of this.
and I do not need to be protected from my own tastes.
I do thank you for your time in responding.
blessings.
Hi
Thank-you for your response.
I am replying to your post in the sense to apologise if you think I was being arrogant or unpleasant – which was far from my intention.
With regards to the bit about fucking up your skin – it was not meant to say that you have a bad idea it was meant to say that they translation of design to skin may not be as easy or as high standard as you would wish (difficult to see without the design).
This was not meant to be an insult with regards to your ideas/designs.
The issue of white inks – yes I accept that that I was wrong to say always you are in fact correct it does depend on several factors such as pigment content , sun exposure, and the amount of metal extract withjn the ink itself.
Many white inks are made up of a synthetic compound or contain barium or titanium . However some contain lead sulphate that whilst makes the tattoo last a lot longer and stand upto the rigours of daily exposure much better it is also toxic.
Since toxicity in tattoo pigments is an issue especially with white, green, and reds I tend to advise ppl to be wary of too much usage unless they are 100% certain what is in them.
There have been several toxic reaction threads on this post.
Again I should have put my argument/thoughts clearer.
Now I have to say that I take offence at you saying I suggested you had no fucking clue. :confused: The argument I was putting forward is that if you are truly passionate about your design you would not let any old artist just print it off and tattoo it without discussion because it can come out wrong.
That above has nothing to do with your intelligence but was there to avoid any compulsive thoughts of ‘hell lets get it done’ – everybody has this in life when they get annoyed. It is not a sign of stupidity or any other insult. it is merely a human reaction.
Pathogens – again it is a standard bit of advice for new posters – if you already know disregard it. If you didn’t it is a shared piece of info by a community that cares about the health of those getting tattooed. Nothing more or less was meant by it and is not a big issue.
Again since you feel it was an insult I apologise as none was intended.
In summary I gave an opinion – if it can help then I am delighted, if it does not then all I have lost is a little of my time that I wanted to give freely anyway.
However I do feel that you have read into my post far too negatively than the style was intended. hence the apologies.
I wish you the best in your tattoo(s) and I hope once you find the artist you post them up in your album as I am intrigued as to what they are.
Take Care
Matthew
thank you again,
and I feel like this is a discussion that should be had in whole by me and my intended artist too.
maybe I should print this and just say “ok, first I need you to read something,
and you can tell me if you are willing to help me with this work”
if I had ever been told
” the chance of this looking like something I want my name associated with
is so slim that I am reluctant to do it “
I would not be asking this question.
refusal typically isnt as much of a problem as simple argument.
I do understand also that very few people go into a shop as passionate about what they want
as I and might have somewhat less of an understanding of the possibilities and limitations.
I also think that finding someone whos personal style is somewhat on track with my tastes or interests
would be a big help, but I would not know how to begin this process…
and I feel like it would be important to have an in-person consultation about the design before hand
and driving or flying around to do this seems like so much work and money when my desires could be easily met locally by anyone who can keep a line a uniform thickness and do splotchless color and shading.
as far as creative work goes, music is really my bag,
and personally I would not budge one millimeter on my creative preconceptions and sensibilities.
however I also would not work as a musician who did commercial jingles, cover songs by request,
or custom personal theme songs…
for specifically that very reason…
by putting one’s self in a position of service by offering flash and custom work on a public
walk-in basis is in my mind the artistic equivalent
but in this case it is a permanent, everyday, forever type deal and the stakes are therefore
raised considerably.
sometimes I wish there were a line of people begging for more of whatever crazy, glitchy,
psychedelic electro-noise I could send rattling there way…
this has happened only once, years ago.
Im sure most tattoo artists would like only to have customers who come in to be similarly blessed
with their own artistic whims and Im glad that happens for many of them at least a few times in their carreer.
I have accepted that my unwillingness to budge creatively means Ill also probably almost
never get paid for my “musical” work and Im OK with that.
I hope that maybe the internet helps artists of all types connect better with those most capable of appreciating there work and style.
now we just need some sort of teleportation device so that I can visit the crazy surrealist tattoo
artist in berlin, and play music for japaneese hippies:)
it seems like the tattoo industry has grown and evolved alot just in the time I have been
looking at magazines and visiting shops.
in the small, american redneck town I live in, it was nearly impossible 15 years ago to
be tattooed by anyone who was not a haggard biker and even things like sailor-style tattoos were seen
as a relic of tattooings sorted youth.
the style and the culture has widened dramatically…
and I hope that there are eventually more distinctions made about
artistic services rendered than just “custom” and “flash”.
something like-
total custom – artist gives you what they think you should have based on artistic knowledge.
personalized custom – artist does their own creative work based on discussions of your interests and intentions.
assistive custom – artist uses their abilities to help you achieve the ideas you have.
customer custom – artist uses their abilities to apply the image you supply
I know it seems like just complicating things,
but as tattooing continues to reach a wider audience, and is viewed as less of a social taboo
it begins to reach many different people with further differing personalities
and will somehow need to evolve to cater to this…
the same way it has evolved to offer thick black tribals without going to borneo or samoa
or nautical start without being a sailor 70 years ago.
without writing three pages of an essay about the tattoo world and how much of a perfectionist you are, could you simply say what it is that you would like doing and some possible reference artwork to a piece either the same or similar to what you want…. that way you might get some replies
ps…. i am not being ignorant or arrogant about this
“without writing three pages of an essay about the tattoo world and how much of a perfectionist you are, could you simply say what it is that you would like doing and some possible reference artwork to a piece either the same or similar to what you want…. that way you might get some replies”
–definitely.
this did go a bit farther than I had intended- ( mostly my wandering tangents)
and you are right, a design or some reference is sorely needed at this point.
I am only now, after a few years, beginning to save up some more $$ and tinkering with designs again … and the thought of one day in the not-so-distant future needing to do this whole song and dance again
got me thinking I needed to somehow approach this differently or with some new insight this time
so that it can be as pleasant and easy as possible for everyone involved because , honestly, I seriously dread it.
” ps… i am not being ignorant or arrogant about this “
–I never called anyone ignorant, and NO you certainly are’nt being arrogant.
I guess in lieu of a completed design, a simple example of some of the issue
from the past is as follows.
some years ago one of my designs was of a lizard.
I wanted it to be done in a semi-realistic fashion as far as its appearance, (up to artist)
but wanted zig-zag type of color patterns radiating around it (seperated by black lines)
it didnt make sence to the guy that the lizard should have shading to give it a little shadow on its body
yet have brightness radiating out from it.
from a purely realistic perspective, this is absolutely right that this is contradictory…
and the color scheme- orange lizard with blue-red-and purple zig-zag was not his favourite-
and again- I do understand that this is a bit artistically “off-track”
and what I have realized in writing and thinking about this more is that I probably need to
see someone whos personal style is very surrealist to begin with…
and simply explain and emphasize the importance of certain elements despite their counter-intuitive
nature.
thanks again.
ps…. i am not being ignorant or arrogant about this
Agreed! Apparently, its not hard to tattoo, but it IS hard to explain in text??? Whatha?
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